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Goldfish Ich Problems

Updated: 9/18/13

Help for a Goldfish with Ich

This “Aquarium Answers” post is an edited and expanded reply to an email question I received about a Goldfish suffering from an ich infestation, this post is not intended to be an in depth article about freshwater ich. For a more in depth article, please visit this site: Aquarium Ich, Identification, Treatment, Lifecycle, Prevention

QUESTION:

Hi Carl:

I hope you don't mind my writing to you. I saw on a board that you had answered some fish questions very intelligently and was desperately hoping you might be able to shed some light on my situation.

About a month ago, we bought a healthy goldfish for my 7 year old son. Within a week he came down with a severe case of ich. We treated with the salt treatment and he recovered after about a week. Almost immediately, his fins turned raggedy white and ripped-looking - then they turned black at the edges (he is a gold fantail). We treated this with Maracyn-2 but it did not get better, so we did another round. During this time the fish became listless and started just hanging at the bottom of the tank. After the end of the second antibiotic treatment, he stopped eating completely. Thinking that the antibiotic had not gotten to him because of the "old" carbon filter we had running, and he was still sick, we tried Maracyn Plus. We are at the end of that now and the fish has not eaten for about 5-6 days (but doesn't seem thinner) and just stays, not swimming, near the bottom of the tank. His fins are okay (not clamped) and while his eyes looked a little popped at different times, they do not now. He looks VERY unhappy and does not seem to be able to swim.

During all this time we have maintained the water cleanliness and quality - although he did go from very hard water to softer water and now has a combination of both. (Treated of course). We started to decrease the salt, but that was when he fell sicker, so we have just maintained it at about 1 1/2 teaspoons/gallon of water, not wanting to stress him from the change. We have tried two different kind of food, but he doesn't even appear to see when we put the food in. He is now in a ten-gallon, though during all the treatments, he was in a one gallon or a three gallon (again - water quality tests came out ok) He is at room temp - about 75 - this whole time.

Thank you so very much for your time. I feel like I have tried everything and don’t know what else to do!!!

Thank you

Charlene


Goldfish with Ich
ANSWER:

[1] First, you need to lower the salt level that may have helped initially, but to much salt will literally dehydrate your goldfish (I only recommend one tablespoon per 5 gallons). Goldfish absorb the water the need where saltwater fish drink the water constantly. When there is too much salt in with your goldfish, it stops this ability to absorb water and pulls the body fluids from your goldfish, which in the short term helps rid your fish of the ich.
Please see this article for more information about the osmotic processes in fish: “How do Fish Drink; Proper Osmotic Function in Fish”

[2] What are your filters? Sponge filters are good for small aquariums especially when combined with HOB filters.

[3] What are you feeding? I would recommend a Spirulina based flake at this time as it is easy to digest plus it helps with your fish immune system. Brine Shrimp is also easy to digest.

[4] I would recommend a methylene blue dip at double dose for 1/2 hour. To prepare this bath I use 1 teaspoon 2.303% solution per 5 gallons (double dose) in a bath of aquarium water from the tank the fish you wish to treat came from, I usually use about a ½ gallon of water, however you may use less. Measurement of the Methylene Blue does not need to be precise as this bath should be used for about 30 minutes. Make sure you keep the water in a warm area, as in a cold room the water temperature can drop rapidly which would stress the fish. Do NOT pour this water back into your display aquarium when finished. This can be performed twice per day.

[5] For goldfish a Malachite Green/ Formalin combination has generally been the most effective for moderate to severe infestations. Quick Cure is good product with this combination of medications (Malachite Green/ Formalin). While a somewhat newer product Sea Chem ParaGuard is slightly safer, albeit also slightly less strong formulation. Malachite Green by itself as in “Nox Ich” is also effective in moderate infestations. Other treatments of note are copper sulfate and Quinine Sulfate or Hydrochloride.

Ich Medications:
Quick Cure
Sea Chem ParaGuard

For mild to moderate infestations (even some severe) I also use Medicated Wonder Shells as these products have Malachite Green (lower levels safe for most delicate fish), acriflavin, and small amounts of methylene blue (not enough to affect bio filtration) and copper. What is best about these Medicated Wonder Shells is that they also add electrolytes, calcium and maintain a proper KH, which is very important for treatment with Malachite Green as this medication is more toxic at lower pH and KH (Best used at a pH of 7.2 or higher and a kH of 80 ppm or higher).

A resource for: Wonder Shells

[6] Pimafix would be a safe organic follow up treatment to your ich problem.
The Medicated Wonder Shells are useful for 10 gallon or larger for ich prevention and treatment, and help with secondary infection and electrolytes.

[7] Your KH and GH is very important to your goldfish' healing, goldfish do best a GH over 200 ppm and KH over 100 ppm. The GH is also an indicator of your Calcium level, which is essential for proper healing as well as osmotic balance. (Magnesium is important too, which can tested via a GH test)
Here is an information page with links to medications, KH, and more articles:

More Aquarium Information

Carl

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pH and KH problems in African Cichlid Aquarium

 

Updated 9-18-13

This article is a simple question and answer post between myself and two customers.

QUESTION:

One of these days I'm going to write down the chemistry for pH, kH and GH and maybe I will remember it, eventually. But for now I new some advice. I got many good suggestions on my fairly new mbuna tank and thus far it has been going very well but something is amiss with my water.
My tap water comes out at about 7.6 pH. I have about 30 pounds of holey rock in there currently. But, for some reason my pH seems to be dropping. Currently it is approaching 7.2

My gH is still pretty high 200 or so, but my kH has also started dropping from around 120 to currently just under 80. Nitrates are between 10 and 20. 0-0 on the bad stuff.
I am doing 30-40% weekly water changes. I have 16 fishes in a 55 gal between 1 1/2 and 3".
I may need yet another reminder about water chemistry or could it be my 'mystery' substrate. Along with some small tan gravel which I have used in many tanks with no apparent detriment, I also have maybe 15 # of stuff that was given to me a while back along with my first cichlids, a little tank etc. I have no idea what it is but she mentioned it was "supposed to be good for aquarium plants".
It is approximately 1/3 each of black, brick red and tan stone. Though relatively small they are more like little chips than rounded pebbles - fairly jagged and rough on the edges. Then again it may not be this at all.
Any ideas?
Thank you.





ANSWER:

There's probably something producing a heavier than normal amount of acid. The normal biological process of Nitrification will have the same effect as titrating with nitric acid (NHO3). Carbonate hardness (KH) is slowly used up in this process, reducing buffering and pH. When the KH is completely depleted, you will find that the aquarium pH will stabilize around 4.4 (of coarse this is much to low), and if you have a large amount of organic build up, it could be part of your reason (although your Nitrates are stable and low from what I read).

More information about Nitrogen Cycle:
*The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle
*Aquarium Nitrates

What are your filter(s)? Some filters such as large canister filters can become what is referred to as “Nitrate factories”. In this process, KH (Carbonate Hardness) is deplete if not cleaned (rinsed) regularly.

If you have an Under Gravel filter, make sure you occasionally remove the lift tubes and siphon out the mulm that accumulates under the plate.
With all filters, it's still important to remove as much mulm and other organic debris as possible.
An Aquarium Vacuum is the preferred method for both water change and mulm removal; although in between water changes an Ehiem Sludge Remover Vacuum is an excellent tool to have, especially in high bio load aquariums.

Product Reference Link: Aquarium Vacuums

As for your KH & GH, I'm a big proponent of keeping an adequate KH (minimum 150 to 300 KH) and Calcium level (part of GH) for many reasons.
One of them is for the problem you are having and the other is that GH is simple way of knowing your calcium levels in fresh water. It's also very important to fish health.
Crushed coral or aragonite can help, but in my experience (especially in High ph aquariums such as African Cichlid tanks), they are not always adequate as these substrates do not dissolve fast enough to release the proper amounts of Bicarbonates, Magnesium, or Calcium for KH and GH.

In the closed environment such as an aquarium, I found that outside sources that are manually added and dissolve, are often necessary.
There are many products available from SeaChem Malawi Buffer which is preferable to baking soda due to the balance of sodium bicarbonate magnesium and other minor elements; to the Wonder Shells which provide essential positive mineral ions (cations) necessary for fish osmoregulation.

Reference:
How to Fish Drink; Osmoregulation

Product References:
*SeaChem Malawi Buffer
*Wonder Shells

At the risk of being too commercial, my personal and more importantly my aquarium maintenance clients aquariums (especially Rift Lake Cichlids) are rarely without a regular Wonder Shell for Calcium and electrolytes control.

As for the plant substrate you were given, this sounds like a product such as Eco Complete or SeaChem Flourite which can lower your pH.

I have an detailed article about KH, Calcium and electrolytes:
The Importance of Maintaining Healthy Calcium Ion levels, GH, pH, and KH levels

My point in mentioning GH is that Calcium and Magnesium are part of GH and are both necessary for proper osmotic processes in fish.
If there are problems with KH, many times there are problems with GH (although in this case there does not seem to be a problem).
The problem here indicates too much organic decomposition thus reducing the KH. Again I would check filters for build up too. When I called on customers aquariums experiencing this problem, many times they had a filter with a thick layer of mulch on the bottom.
Removing this, then adding a KH stabilizer (which I had better results with a slow dissolving KH stabilizer), and the problem was solved.

See also:
CALCIUM, MAGNESIUM, AND KH IN AQUARIUMS; BLOG

QUESTION:

Carl, I am curious how the Wonder Shells compare per use with SeaChem Or Kent?
I am definitely on a budget so sometimes I use 'good' at a Lower price, rather than 'better' at a higher price.
Does crushed coral, holey, aragonite, etc. buffer the water by actually dissolving, exchanging ions or whatever, into the water or is there some sort of chemical reaction in the water which eventually dissipates?
How does the coral+ 'wear out' and have to be replaced?
I appreciate ya
Bill


ANSWER:
For freshwater aquariums my experience has been equal to SeaChem (I have had better results with SeaChem products over Kent Marine and use them 10/1 over Kent for marine aquaria). For marine aquariums the Wonder shell help, but the well balanced SeaChem line is hard to beat (such their calcium polyglucanate)
The Large wonder shells are only a about $2.50 and are hard to beat for Freshwater.

My understanding is the same as using a cave chemistry analogy;
Water containing acids such as carbonic or nitric acid, VERY slowly dissolve away the minerals in the crushed coral, etc. which is why I have found in freshwater and marine, that the rate of dissolving does not keep up with buffer depletion.
Basically the coral does not wear out, rather dissolves away.

Recommended Related articles:
*Maintenance of a Balanced Aquarium Redox Potential

*Aquarium Medications; How they work

For more aquarium information articles:

*Aquarium & Pond Information

Recommended/Useful Aquarium Products:

*Ultraviolet Sterilizer- for disease prevention, improved Redox balance
*Replacement UV Bulbs- these are important to change every 6 months to keep your UV Sterilizer functioning properly

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AQUARIUM ANSWERS;
ARTICLES:

In Chronological order of writing with the newest at the top

  1. How to Treat Sick Fish
  2. Whirling Disease in Fish
  3. Reef Aquarium Chemistry Maintenance
  4. Use of RO, DI, Softwater in Aquariums
  5. Lighting Theory of a Planted Aquarium- RQE, PFY, PAS, & PUR
  6. Aquarium or Pond Bio Load
  7. Tuberculosis in Fish
  8. PUR vs PAR in Aquarium Lighting
  9. Head Pressure in Aquarium and Pond Water Pumps
  10. Fin/Tail Rot For Betta & ALL Fish
  11. Angelfish Virus/Aids
  12. Activated Carbon
  13. Fish Baths/Dips as an aid to treatment
  14. Streptococcus gram positive bacterium in aquariums, Eye Infections
  15. Hydrogen Sulfide
    production in anaerobic De-Nitrification for Aquarium/Ponds
  16. Fish Shipping
  17. Aquarium Size, Fish Stunting
  18. Aquarium Algae,
    BBA & Brown Algae in particular
  19. Aquarium Salt (Sodium chloride) in Freshwater Aquariums
  20. Betta Habitat; Wild Bettas to Domestic Betta environment parameters
  21. HITH; Hole in the Head Disease
  22. Aquarium Protein Skimmers, Ozonizers
  23. Power Head/ Water Pump Review
  24. Molly Disease/ Mollies in an Aquarium
  25. Basic Fish Anatomy, Fin Identification
  26. Aquarium Moving/ Power Failures
  27. Octopus as Aquarium Pets
  28. Aquarium Nitrates
  29. Ichthyophonus protists, fungus in fish
  30. Aquarium and Pond Filter Media
    Types; Mechanical, Bio, Chemical
  31. Aquarium Water Conditioners (also Pond)
  32. Fish Parasites; Trematodes & Monogeneans; Annelids and Nematodes;
    Flukes, internal worms, Detritus Worms (often confused with Planaria), Micro Worms
  33. Aquarium Silicone Application;
    DIY Aquarium Repair & Glass thickness
  34. Pond Veggie Filters; DIY Bog Filter
  35. The difference between Plaster of Paris and Aquarium Products such a Wonder Shells:
  36. NEON TETRA DISEASE
    Identification, prevention & Treatment
  37. AQUARIUM TEST KITS; Use & Importance
  38. SEXING FISH; Basics
  39. Chocolate Chip, Knobby and Fromia Starfish
  40. Freshwater Velvet & Costia
  41. Usnic Acid as a Fish Remedy
  42. Aquarium Heaters; Types, information
  43. The Lateral Line in Fish, Lateral Line Disease
    or Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)
  44. Tap Water use in Aquarium; Chloramines, Chlorine
  45. Can Black Ghost Knife fish give an electric shock?
  46. Bio Wheel Review; Do Bio-Wheels really work?
  47. How do Fish Drink?
    PROPER OSMOTIC FUNCTION-
    Use of RO Water
  48. Cyclops, and Predatory Damselfly larvae
  49. Betta with Dropsy;
    Treatment and Prevention of DROPSY in all fish
  50. pH and KH problems in African Cichlid Aquarium
  51. Aquarium Gravel, which size?
  52. Blue green algae, Cyanobacteria in Ponds/Aquariums
  53. AQUARIUM ANSWERS DIRECTORY


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